Okay, okay, a non-Star Wars entry for once

[lumy12]

(though I still managed to use it in the title - woohoo!)

I would like to think out loud a little here and see what you guys think. Comments welcome. You can comment ANONYMOUSLY, people, so it shouldn't be so scary. Of course emails are fine too, I'm just trying to break more people into this blogging stuff.... and I wonder how many people still read this journal?

My selfishness and friendship boundaries are my issues.... my friend T (who doesn't get online so I assume would never read this) is going through a rough time right now. Actually, she's one of those people who has a perpetual black cloud following her around. Yet she's always very upbeat and pleasant, she's not a downer at all, she's pretty amazing that way. She has a slew of health problems, there's family drama in both her family and her husband's family, and now to top things off her marriage is ending - not by her choice. Things are getting uglier by the day, it seems. I have endless sympathy for her.

The problem is I feel a little strange that she comes to me for money... she has throughout our friendship, and has always paid it back fairly promptly. Except this time. Her husband refuses to pay me back, saying it's not his problem, and she doesn't have her own money - she hasn't been able to work since she got sick a few years ago. The thing is, her parents have money. She just doesn't like to go to them (the whole pride thing) So I'm starting to resent that. I'm not an ATM! She keeps saying she'll pay me back but never is able to. Also, I feel like she wants me to invite her to come stay with me, and I just can't do it - my brother is with me now (we're having so much fun being roommies!) - and she has a 16-year-old son who I'm very fond of also, I just don't have room for them and all their stuff right now. I think she knows this, but she still hints.

I don't mind them coming over to escape once in a while. Even though I find last-minute changes in plans disturbing (it's my "inner Monk", right, Stad?), I can usually blow off whatever I was going to do, unless it involves another person, of course. I just feel like I should be doing more. I'm a good listener, but that's about it. I should be doing more to help, somehow. I don't know, that sounds lame even as I type it. What can I do? If I were really a wonderful friend, wouldn't I offer to squeeze her into my house somehow?

What makes me feel the most selfish, I guess, is the fact that I'm single and I don't have any kids, I have a mortgage but no car payment, I have plenty of credit available to me, I have a small amount of savings but at least I do HAVE savings.... I mean, I spend my money going to see Star Wars every weekend, I think I can afford to help her feed herself and her kid, ya know? When I look at it like that, I don't care about the money. She needs it more than I do. Yet I still DO care or I wouldn't be writing all this.

ARGH!!!
Thoughts?

Comments

No help here

[(Anonymous)]

You're not an ATM? I beg to differ. Okay, so it's different when I give you a check in exchange for cash.

I can't give you any different perspectives on the whole situation cuz we tend to have similar attitudes about $, being careful about what we spend, keeping our credit in great shape, etc. We were raised to value fairness (like each person gets EXACTLY two donuts cuz that's fair) so it will bug us if we're paying more than we're supposed to for things, like case in point my refusal to buy lots of stuff at Safeway cuz their prices are higher.

It's not a good situation to mix friends and $ constantly. She has always gone to you for borrowing money - that's okay when she can pay you back, but you knew this (her not being able to repay) would probably happen sooner or later. That's why it's not right to rely on friends for money so much. If it's a temporary thing to help a friend out of a jam, then that's fine, but you shouldn't have to support her just because you've been responsible with your finances.

If she needs help, she should be going to her parents like you said. A pride thing? Well if she's not working and doesn't have any income, then it's not gonna change anytime soon. So she should rely on her family, not on you. If you could see things getting better for her, that she had a job and could be self-sufficient in the near future, then you could know that a little bit of money given to her could mean a lot to get her over the hump until then. But if you see nothing changing anytime soon, then you'd have to be comfortable putting yourself in debt to support her, and you shouldn't have to do that.

When I met her that one day, it was a little awkward when she spoke about her personal troubles directly to me. Maybe that makes me sound cold, but it just seemed too soon to be talking about personal stuff with me. We had just met, and she said something about her husband leaving her, looking right at me, and like, how am I supposed to respond to that? I said "I'm sorry to hear that" but I don't feel comfortable talking about personal stuff with someone I don't know. Maybe that makes me seem like an unsympathetic jerk, but oh well, I'm just being honest.

-Stad

I know what you mean

[lumy12.livejournal.com]

Yeah, she's very direct - she did the same thing with Jeff at the show a month ago, and I don't even think he heard her. (she used to visit him and Aaron at the shop over the holidays) Your response was appropriate, what can you really say?

I'm not going into debt to support her, it's not THAT much $ we're talking about here. She borrowed it in December because S. had overspent and they couldn't pay some bills. She said they'd pay it back right after Christmas. Then it was January, then March, last I heard it was gonna be a few weeks ago but then she called me in desperate need of some money to go get some stuff back from the pawn shop that she suddenly realized she shouldn't have sold... my rule in my head about money is not to lend any more to a person who hasn't yet paid me back, but I just couldn't say no when I had the $ on me (this was just for $30)

She said her mom sent her money and it hadn't arrived yet, that she'd pay me back as soon as she got it - now I know she has it and she hasn't paid it back yet, maybe this weekend when I see her Saturday... if she pays it back before moving to California supposedly at the end of the summer, I'll be happy.

See, her mom has offered her a place to live and a car IF she goes back to California. Not if she stays out here. She wants to stay out here so J. can graduate out here, but she can only get $275/month in state aid or something.... isn't that crazy? Who can live on that, esp. with a kid? She didn't want to go back because she'll be under Mom's thumb in CA.... but like Aaron was telling her, she's a "free agent" and has to go wherever the best deal is.... heh. I guess the pride thing is gone cuz her mom already knows the marriage is failing (no one liked S. in her family). No need to cover up the finances.

-Oh and she brings up the money all the time, so it's not like she's forgotten about it. I HATE having to remind people - it's annoying with Avon, but at least that's business. Aaron has a friend who borrows money from him constantly, I don't think he's paid him back yet and now they barely talk, I'll have to ask him about that.... it's just never a good thing to mix friends and money. Dad keeps asking me when I'm going to get my new table - I didn't tell him I was going to use the $ that T borrowed, and that I had planned on getting the new set when she pays me back... I should just buy it anyway, not like I haven't bought other stuff that costs more! (iPod, computer, and paying the vet too, ick)

Whoa what a long comment. You better read this you silly Stad.

There's something very unhealthy going on here...

[meli-in-sac.livejournal.com]

Although it's hard to pinpoint what it is. But you asked for comments, so you're gettin' em!

I believe in the animal world, this person would be known as "a parasite."

Your friend has obviously settled quite comfortably into a "victim" role. It seems to work for her. She gets lots of attention, lots of sympathy, and she gets the martyrdom status of a single mom with just two more years left for her son. Does she know my mother? Because that was basically my mother throughout a good part of my childhood. You know....all the mistakes and lack of financial responsibility was always "so my kids can go to the same school."

One of my colleagues just loaned me a book about roleplaying and gameplaying people do unconsciously. The official psychological term is "transactional analysis." Anyway, the theory is that when transactions between people fall into patterns ("a game"), there are reasons both parties keep playing that game. Each party gets some sort of payoff. Until someone says "I quit" or changes the rules, the game continues. In your friend's case, the payoffs seem fairly obvious, as I mentioned above. But you are obviously getting something too, whether that's feeling good about being able to help a friend, validation of how well you have done in your life, the knowledge that someone needs you, etc.

I'm pretty far removed from the situation, but it seems that you need to change the rules. Which part is bothering you most....
A) parting with the money in the first place,
B) guilt about you having a nicer life than your friend,
C) the anxiety/obligation game around her paying it back, or
D) the fact that she isn't taking care of herself?

My quick, not so thought out answers would be...
to A) ....stop parting with it. You are uncomfortable mixing money and friendship
to B) .....get over it. You have done well, and there is a reason for it.
to C) ....don't loan it to her -- just give it to her. If youcan't afford to give it, don't. Then you're not expecting it back, and she's not fretting all the time about not being able to pay it back. An added bonus, is that she may feel guilty and not ask you anymore. The trick is that if you give it and she later comes up with it, don't take it. That puts you back into the old game.
to D) ....A good talk with your friend (if appropriate) about choices and consequences may help. Is her son graduating from his current school really the most important thing in life?

Anyway, that's my humble opinion. Take what you want, and dump the rest, but keep us posted!!!

Re: There's something very unhealthy going on here...

[lumy12.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm. Interesting. I think A) is the biggest thing. I think I have this thing in my head where I think it's a crime to refuse money to a friend, that I am a selfish, horrible person if I am spending money on stupid stuff, or putting it in savings, when a friend needs it more. Aaron is very generous with money - he loans it out and doesn't care when it gets paid back. (but I get annoyed if he whines about his finances afterward) I guess I wish *I* could be that way, but I'm just not.

I thought about the victim thing too, but it wasn't her fault she got sick... I guess she made a poor choice for a spouse but who knows? I only know her side... I can imagine it must have been overwhelming to him to have to support her, her child, and pay child support for his own kids, while working a full-time mediocre-paying job and attending school 4 nights a week... I don't know. I get the feeling she'll never have it together and it saddens me. I'm trying to think of this money as a gift, but if she finally does pay it back I wouldn't refuse! (especially knowing her parents will look after her)

Thanks for the input! I will keep you posted :)

Re: There's something very unhealthy going on here...

[lumy12.livejournal.com]

A quick note - you may not even see this, unless you have your email option turned on (I do, so I'm guaranteed to see all comments no matter how old) - I think I've made peace with the fact that I will probably never see this money again. If I do, it will come as a pleasant surprise.

I don't feel like I have to rush to see her every time she wants me to anymore. She's moving to California in a few weeks, and I definitely want to see her before then, but I felt very little guilt about declining to help her sort stuff for a garage sale (booooo-ring!) when I had better things to do *ahem* Star Wars obsessing! - furthermore, I won't be posting about her cuz she'll have email access and may read this. I doubt she'd go back and check out this old stuff - if she does, oh well, it's how I feel.... hopefully her feelings aren't terribly hurt....

Re: There's something very unhealthy going on here...

[gizzi1213.livejournal.com]

A quick note - you may not even see this, unless you have your email option turned on (I do, so I'm guaranteed to see all comments no matter how old) - I think I've made peace with the fact that I will probably never see this money again. If I do, it will come as a pleasant surprise.

I don't feel like I have to rush to see her every time she wants me to anymore. She's moving to California in a few weeks, and I definitely want to see her before then, but I felt very little guilt about declining to help her sort stuff for a garage sale (booooo-ring!) when I had better things to do *ahem* Star Wars obsessing! - furthermore, I won't be posting about her cuz she'll have email access and may read this. I doubt she'd go back and check out this old stuff - if she does, oh well, it's how I feel.... hopefully her feelings aren't terribly hurt....

I'm of the opinion if you lend money you should be in a position to be live without that money if you never see it again. HOWEVER, if it is clear the money is a LOAN to the other person, that person should be expected to pay it back. No guilt on my side if I nag about it. My sister still owes me something like $9,000 for her divorce!! Believe me, I NAG!!!

I also found this post amusing when you comment about seeing all the comments no matter old!! And then later when you comment about how she wouldn't go back and read old stuff.

I'm beginning to believe I'm the only one STRANGE enough to read a journal that has existed for YEARS from beginning to end!!!

Re: There's something very unhealthy going on here...

[lumy12.livejournal.com]

You're the only one who CARES enough to take the time! But, if I EVER finish that eternally long "Eclipse," catching up on your journal is next on the bedtime reading list!

(and about the money... I did get it back! She moved back here and still does occasionally borrow money, I try not to let it bother me because aside from that I'm a shitty friend in that I never call her and stuff. ...$9000???? I can't afford to loan anyone THAT much money!)

Re: There's something very unhealthy going on here...

[gizzi1213.livejournal.com]

Well, the $9,000 was paid out over the course of the divorce. It always amuses me that I've paid for a divorce and I've never been married!!! And, I was living at home at the time so about 3/4 of my income was going in the bank anyway, since I had few expenses.

Yes, you need to finish Eclipse!!!!!

Re: There's something very unhealthy going on here...

[lumy12.livejournal.com]

Hee - I could say the same thing! I paid for Asshole's divorce. With the money I got due to HIM breaking MY wrist. (worker's comp thing) Ha! Stupid little Wendy thought that he and I would be getting married someday... pffffffffffffffft.

Stupid Wendy has learned a lesson about shelling out money for men who are not related to her!

Re: There's something very unhealthy going on here...

[gizzi1213.livejournal.com]

Well, this was for my sister, so relationship was there. It was also for my niece and nephew who I wanted AWAY from the idiot that is their father as much as possible. Mike has definite emotional issues from having WAY to much exposure to his father when he was little. Deanna is cool though! My favorite Deanna memory is when she said one time, "You know Daddy, yadda yadda yadda...." meaning he NEVER follows through on anything he says he'll do. Deanna figured him out for a MAJOR LOSER instantly. Of course, she's a girl, so she's got a heads up on identifying idiots thing.

Re: There's something very unhealthy going on here...

[lumy12.livejournal.com]

That's a good skill to have! Plenty of girls do NOT have such idiot-identification skills and end up with those losers!

Re: There's something very unhealthy going on here...

[gizzi1213.livejournal.com]

Deanna is an incredibly bright young lady. Her brother is an incredibly bright young man...HE is just lazy as hell and expects to be waited on hand and foot...his father's legacy!!!

<lj user="lightmadeliquid"> membership

[meg14.livejournal.com]

we'd love for you to be a member, but you'll have to fill out the application in the userinfo section. just post it in a comment in the f/o entry. thanks ;)

( ( Meg ) )